Body: | Trinity Proof Texts
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Micah 5:2-3
But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity. Therefore, He will give them up until the time When she who is in labor has borne a child.
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The irrefutable argument stated:
Micah 5:2 clearly states that the Messiah has existed from all eternity
Meaning: "His activities date back to all eternity, without beginning"
Contrasting the Messiah's future incarnation with His "eternal origins/activities", the only logical conclusion is that Jesus was at the very least of supernatural origin, like Jehovah, for only Jehovah has an eternal origins! The Messiah therefore traced his lineage, not from David, but from all past eternity, being like God himself, has always existed and timeless! No Jew would every apply this language to a created angel!
Comments:
The text is so clear that anti-Trinitarians have only one argument based upon the definition of the word translated, "goings forth", [4163 mowtsa'ah] and it is a very weak argument!
Anti-Trinitarian rebuttals:
The only Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal
The expression, "His goings forth are from long ago" actually teaches the messiah was a creature with an "origin", based upon the definition of the Hebrew word, [mowtsa'ah] which Strong #4163 defines as: "origin, place of going out from".
The Only Anti-Trinitarian rebuttal refuted below:
Hebrew word links and definitions: (Strong numbers inserted)
Micah 5:2-3 But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the
clans of Judah, From you One will go forth3318 for Me to be ruler in
Israel. His goings forth4163 are from long ago, From the days of eternity.
Therefore, He will give them up until the time When she who is in labor has
borne3205 a child.
Use in Micah 5
Strong's Definitions
His goings forth4163 are from long ago
4163 mowtsa'ah (derived from 4161), origin, place of going out from
(not used in Micah but is the common base word from which 4163 is derived)
4161 mowtsa' (derived from 3318), "issue, export, source, spring, act or place of going out or forth" Used of Jehovah in Hosea 6:3
From you One will go forth3318
3318 yatsa' a primitive root: "to go out, come out, exit, go forth"
she who is in labor has borne3205
3205 yalad a primitive root: "to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail"
"His goings forth are from long ago" means "His activities date back to all
eternity" because:
If the Holy Spirit wanted to say Jesus was a creature with a
beginning, He would have personally chosen to use any of the words like the
one's below. This is powerful evidence against any notion that Micah 5:2 is
teaching Jesus is a creature. But the irrefutable truth, is that the very
word "yalad" Jehovah's Witnesses WISH TO GOD, was used in Micah 5:2 IS USED
in Micah 5:3! (3205 "yalad" in the next verse!) If God wanted to say Jesus
was a creature, He skipped over they key word and surely picked an obscure
word, when several very clear and direct words were available. Even worse
for Jehovah's Witnesses is the fact that [3318 yatsa'] "Let the earth bring
forth [3318 yatsa']" used in Gen 1:24 , was used in Micah 5:2, but instead
of referring to the "origin/creation of Jesus in ages past" the word is
applied to the incarnation, where Jesus had pre-existence! This is a
virtual Knock Out!
-"in the beginning God created [1254 bara]" Gen 1:1
-"Let us make [6213 asah] man in our own image" Gen 1:26
-"And God created [1254 bara] man in His own image" Gen 1:27
-Gen 1:24 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth [3318 yatsa'] living
creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the
earth after their kind"; and it was so.
-Micah 5:3 "she who is in labor has borne3205" (3205 yalad a primitive
root: "to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail")
Notice the plural "goings forth" [4163 mowtsa'ah]. Even the NIV
translates it as plural "origins" not "origin". Does Jesus have multiple
origins? If a single creation point was meant, it would have to be
non-plural! Hosea 6:3 uses the "singular/non-plural" [4161 mowtsa'] in
reference to God, making it more likely, according to Jehovah's Witness
logic, that God had a single origin/creation point. "So let us know, let us
press on to know Jehovah. His going forth [4161 mowtsa'] is as certain as
the dawn." Of course, we know God is not a creature, but then neither is
Jesus Christ according to Micah 5:2! But the use of the plural "goings
forth" is irrefutable proof, that the text means, "His activities date back
to all eternity, without beginning" rather than, "He was created [singular]
long ago".
Even if we granted that the word [4163 mowtsa'ah] meant "origin" in
the sense of "beginning point", we could easily say of Jehovah, "Jehovah's
origin (beginning point) is from long ago, from the days of eternity." We
would not think it meant the Father was a creature! We would clearly
understand that God's origin dates back to all eternity, beginningless! If
you began in past eternity, YOU HAVE NO BEGINNING! If Jesus' starting point
was past eternity, that means he did not have a beginning! When
anti-Trinitarians attempt to define the Hebrew word, "OLAM" here to mean
less than "forever" it cuts both ways! For every verse Jehovah's Witnesses
use to prove the earth will "last forever" also used the word "OLAM". But
having no intellectual integrity, and forbidden from the origination to
think for themselves, they cannot comprehend that when they "prove" OLAM
means less than eternity, they also prove the earth will be destroyed just
like 2 Pet 3:10 and Rev 20:11 says it will! The truth is, the word "OLAM"
means "age lasting" and the context always tells you usage. For example,
Passover feast (Ex 12:14), circumcision (Gen 17:10-14) and the weekly
Sabbath day (Exodus 31:16-17) are all described as an (OLAM) "eternal
ordinance", yet all are abolished (Col 2:16) for they were bound to the
"Jewish age and law" and we are in the "age of Christ and grace". But OLAM
also refers to God and Micah 5:2 is exactly parallel to several other
places where the context demands OLAM be unlimited!
Jehovah's Witnesses completely fail to observe that the expression,
"go forth" is used TWO TIMES in Micah 5:2! Notice the following
etymological connection between the two different Hebrew words rendered,
"going forth" in Micah 5:2! The irrefutable point is that NEITHER uses of
the phrase "going forth" denote actual origin! The first use of "going
forth" refers to the incarnation, yet Jesus existed before this! The second
use of "goings forth" is plural and means, "activity" not origin.
"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth [3318 yatsa'] for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth [4163 mowtsa'ah] are from long ago, From the days of eternity."
Word #1
"goings forth"
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Word #2
"go forth"
His goings forth4163 are from long ago (Micah 5:2)
4163 mowtsa'ah (derived from 4161), origin, place of going out from
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4161 mowtsa' (derived from 3318), "issue, export, source, spring, act or place of going out or forth"
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From you One will go forth3318 (Micah 5:2)
3318 yatsa' a primitive root: "to go out, come out, exit, go forth"
There are only two times that the Hebrew word, "4163 mowtsa'ah" is
used in the Bible:
-Micah 5:2 "His goings forth [4163 mowtsa'ah] are from long ago, From the
days of eternity."
-2 Kings 10:27 They also broke down the sacred pillar of Baal and broke
down the house of Baal, and made it a latrine [4163 mowtsa'ah] to this day.
(Also translated: "refuse dump" and "draught house")
The word [4163 mowtsa'ah] is rare in this exact form and its
definition is most obviously very different both times it is used. For
Jehovah's Witnesses to be dogmatic about the definition of the word, is
therefore unscholarly. In fact, it is a rather imprecise Hebrew word that
certainly DOES NOT need to indicate the "origin" in the sense of "creation
point of a creature". If the word [4163 mowtsa'ah] was used only one other
time outside of Micah 5:2 to denote an act of God creating in Genesis 1,
that would be good evidence, but still not conclusive.
The word [4163 mowtsa'ah] is derived from another Hebrew word [4161
mowtsa']. The Hebrew word [4161 mowtsa'], is derived from the primitive
root Hebrew word [3318 yatsa'] which is used over 1000 times in the Bible
including Micah 5:2! So now we come full circle!
[4163 mowtsa'ah] is defined as "origin, place of going out from".
Yet the word [4161 mowtsa'] is used of Jehovah in Hosea 6:3! According to
Jehovah's Witness logic, if Jesus is a creature, because the word, [4163
mowtsa'ah] can mean "origin" then Jehovah is a creature because the word,
[4161 mowtsa'] can mean, "issue, source, spring". The truth is neither word
must mean Jesus or the Father are creatures with origins!
4163 mowtsa'ah (from 4161, mowtsa')
"origin, place of going out from" Strong's 4163
4161 mowtsa' (from 3318 yatsa')
"issue, export, source, spring, act or place of going out or forth" Strong's 3318
3318 yatsa' (primitive root)
"to go out, come out, exit, go forth"
Mic 5:2 "His goings forth [4163 mowtsa'ah] are from long ago, From the days of eternity."
Hosea 6:3 "So let us know, let us press on to know Jehovah. His going forth [4161 mowtsa'] is as certain as the dawn."
Gen 1:24 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth [3318 yatsa'] living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so.
If the Hebrew word, [4163 mowtsa'ah] proves Jesus is a creature with an origin then...
Then the Hebrew word, [4161 mowtsa'] proves God "issued" (birth), had a "source", "sprang forth", is a creature with an origin and beginning point? Further, this verse says, according to Jehovah's Witness logic, that the fact God is a creature with an origin "is as certain as the dawn".
Denotes actual creation, but not when used in Micah 5:2, for there it refers to the incarnation where Jesus had pre-existence!
Varied use of [3318 yatsa', "to go out, come out, exit, go forth"].
Micah 5:2 But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the
clans of Judah, From you One will go forth [3318 yatsa'] for Me to be ruler
in Israel. His goings forth [4163 mowtsa'ah] are from long ago, From the
days of eternity.
Mic 5:2 From you One will go forth [3318 yatsa'] for Me to be ruler in Israel.
Gen 1:24 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth [3318 yatsa'] living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so.
Isa 43:13 "Even from [3318 yatsa'] eternity I am He; And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?"
This is speaking about Christ's incarnation! Cannot denote creation point, for Jehovah's Witnesses agree Jesus pre-existed his incarnation.
Here the word denotes actual beginning point of created origin.
Is God a creature? Did he "come forth" from eternity? Does this denote God had an "origin". Then neither does the rare, weaker and more obscure word, [4163 mowtsa'ah] necessarily infer Jesus had an "origin" as a creature.
Christadelphians will argue that the "incarnation" of Jesus was his
actual created beginning point. Unlike Jehovah's Witnesses,
Christadelphians deny Jesus had any pre-human existence but teach that
Jesus only existed in the mind of God from all eternity, but not actually
until his conception. Christadelphians reject the doctrine of incarnation.
They are delighted that the word [3318 yatsa'] is used in Micah 5:2 to
denote his conception. "From you One will go forth [3318 yatsa'] for Me to
be ruler in Israel." They use this word as proof that Jesus was "created"
at conception with no prior existence. They then interpret Mic 5:2 "His
goings forth [4163 mowtsa'ah] are from long ago, From the days of
eternity." to mean that Jesus existed as an idea in the mind of God before
creation. Such views are easily refuted through a simple study of the
incarnation and pre-existence passages of Jesus! For example, John was 6
months older by conception than Jesus yet John said, "he existed before
me". Also Jesus said he had seen the father being from the Father. The
whole point of Micah 5:2 is to teach the pre-existence of Jesus, otherwise
the verse is nonsense!
Both [3318 yatsa'] and [4161 mowtsa'] are used in 2 Kings 2:21 and
neither mean origin. Every Jew understood that water existed before it came
out the of spring! "And he went out [3318 yatsa'] to the spring [4161
mowtsa'] of water, and threw salt in it and said, "Thus says the Lord, 'I
have purified these waters; there shall not be from there death or
unfruitfulness any longer.'" 2 Kings 2:21
The use of the phrase Micah 5:2 "His goings forth [4163 mowtsa'ah]
are from long ago, From the days of eternity." means "His activities date
back to all eternity, without beginning". "Goings forth" means, "activity"
not origin as seen in the following passages where the same expression is
translated from the more common "went out [3318 yatsa']"
1 Samuel 29:6 Then Achish called David and said to him, "As the Lord
lives, you have been upright, and your going out [3318 yatsa'] and your
coming in with me in the army are pleasing in my sight; for I have not
found evil in you from the day of your coming to me to this day.
Nevertheless, you are not pleasing in the sight of the lords.
2 Samuel 3:25 "You know Abner the son of Ner, that he came to
deceive you and to learn of your going out and coming in, and to find out
all that you are doing." When Joab came out [3318 yatsa'] from David, he
sent messengers after Abner, and they brought him back from the well of
Sirah; but David did not know it.
2 Samuel 5:2 "Previously, when Saul was king over us, you were the
one who led Israel out [3318 yatsa'] and in. And the Lord said to you, 'You
will shepherd My people Israel, and you will be a ruler over Israel.'"
2 Samuel 10:16 And Hadadezer sent and brought out [3318 yatsa'] the
Arameans who were beyond the River, and they came to Helam; and Shobach the
commander of the army of Hadadezer led them.
2 Kings 19:31 'For out of Jerusalem shall go forth [3318 yatsa'] a
remnant, and out of Mount Zion survivors. The zeal of the Lord shall
perform this.
Isaiah 37:28 "But I know your sitting down, And your going out [3318
yatsa'] and your coming in, And your raging against Me.
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