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The Record of the Rocks and Geologic Column
2010 AD Part 3 of 6
(...are Positive Evidence for Creation, and refute evolution!)
Evolutionist-Converter Quotes from Video Lectures!
Video Lecture: 70 Minutes
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Professor Knockout Quotes!
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The only official collection of quotes by Dr. Don Patton on the internet.
An important message from Dr. Patton regarding these quotes:
I use most of these quotes as handouts to provide documentation for my lecture series. They were not intended to stand alone as arguments by themselves. However this web site (www.bible.ca) convinced me that they could be useful as a reference tool, especially for those who attend the lectures, and I agreed. I commented at the time that some of the quotes would not make sense without the lecture. A few (two) have charged that a small number of these quotes misrepresent the intent of the context. When the charges were investigated, it was discovered, sure enough, if they had heard them used in the context of the lecture, they would have seen that the use was appropriate. It should be remembered that we are not quoting these individuals to imply that they are creationists. Rather, just the opposite. We are using them as antagonistic witnesses. When such individuals acknowledge facts contrary to their own interest, the credibility of their testimony increases dramatically. We want you to know that these individuals are devout evolutionists. It should also be remembered that the quotes are used as graphics in a lecture. It is easy to defeat the purpose of effective communication by too much detail in the graphic. A longer excerpt might be desirable but ineffective. This practical challenge is one of the reasons documentation is provided in the form of a handout, which allows one to check the entire book or article referenced. If you feel that any of the quotes are used in a "deceptive and misleading" way, please contact the webmaster a formal inquiry will be made of your concerns. We are not afraid to admit error and make changes.
Dr. Don R. Patton
Quotes used by Dr. Don Patton in video lecture.
Record Of The Rocks
Complete Geologic Column Is Non-Existant, Except In Text Books
NOT REALLY ANYWHERE! Von Engeln & Caster, "If a pile were to be made by using the greatest thickness of sedimentary beds of each geological age, it would be at least 100 miles high. ...It is, of course, impossible to have even a considerable fraction of this great pile available at any one place. The Grand Canyon of the Colorado, for example, is only one mile deep." Geology, p.417. Derek Ager (Past President, British Geological Association) "Nowhere in the world is the record, or even part of it, anywhere near complete." The New Catastrophism, 1993, p.14
CONCEPTUAL, "The end product of correlation is a mental abstraction called the geological column." p.779, 1985, Encyclopedia Britannica
Complete Column Is Pieced Together By Circular Logic
BUILT BY CORRELATION, L. Don Leet (Harvard) & Sheldon Judson (Princeton), "Because we cannot find sedimentary rocks representing all of earth time neatly in one convenient area, we must piece together the rock sequence from locality to locality. This process of tying one rock sequence in one place to another in some other place is known as correlation, from the Latin for 'together' plus 'relate.'" Physical Geology, p.181.
Putman & Bassett, "A rock that had an early form of an organism was clearly older than rocks containing later forms. Furthermore, all rocks that had the early form, no matter how far apart those rocks were geographically, would have to be the same age. ...fossil successions made it possible to say that the Cambrian rocks are older than the Ordovician rocks. In this way our geologic time table came into being. ...Without the theory of evolution and the interdisciplinary science of paleontology, it could not exist." Geology, p.544.
Non-Radioactive Correlation, Derek Ager (Past Pres., British Geol. Asso.) "...fossils have been and still are the best and most accurate method of dating and correlating the rocks in which they occur ...I can think of no cases of radioactive decay being used to date fossils.", New Scientist, 11/10/82, p.425. Time Relations? Dunbar & Rogers, "...though facies and faunal relations are recorded in the rocks and fossils, and their determination can be reasonable exact and objective, time relations are not so recorded, and their determination remains an ideal, toward which we strive, but which we can only approximate... It follows that correlation, being...essentially an interpretation, is the result of personal judgment, and that it can never be wholly objective,..." Principles Of Stratigraphy, p. 272
Circular Argumentation
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Circular Argumentation
R. H. Rastal, Cambridge, "It cannot be denied that from a strictly
philosophical standpoint geologists are here arguing in a circle. The
succession of organisms has been determined by a study of their remains
embedded in the rocks, and the relative ages of the rocks are determined by
the organisms that they contain." Encyclopedia Britannia, Vol.X, p.168.
Tom Kemp, Oxford, "A circular argument arises: Interpret the fossil record
in the terms of a particular theory of evolution, inspect the
interpretation, and note that it confirms the theory. Well, it would,
wouldn't it?" New Scientist, Vol.108, 12/5/1985, p. 67.
J. E. O'rourke, "The rocks do date the fossils, but the fossils date the
rocks more accurately. Stratigraphy cannot avoid this kind of reasoning, if
it insists on using only temporal concepts, because circularity is inherent
in the derivation of time scales." American Journal of Science, Vol. 276,
p.51.
D. B. Kitts, U. of OK., "But the danger of circularity is still present.
...The temporal ordering of biological events beyond the local section may
critically involve paleontological correlation...for almost almost all
contemporary paleontologist it rest upon the acceptance of the evolutionary
hypothesis." Evolution V.28, p.466.
David M. Raup, U. of Chicago;"The charge that the construction of the
geologic scale involves circularity has a certain amount of validity.
...Thus, the procedure is far from ideal and the geologic ranges are
constantly being revised (usually extended) as new occurrences are found."
Field Museum Of Natural History Bulletin, Vol.54, Mar.1983, p.21.
Living Fossils, Extinct For How Long?
NO ANSWER, Niles Eldridge, Curator, American Museum Of Natural History,
"...there seems to have been almost no change in any part we can compare
between the living organism and its fossilized progenitors of the remote
geological past. Living fossils embody the theme of evolutionary stability
to an extreme degree. ...We have not completely solved the riddle of living
fossils." Fossils, 1991, p.101, 108.
Neopilina, Niles Eldridge, "...were thought to have been extinct by the end
of the Middle Devonian [385 MYA]. Modern Neopilina species, however, were
dredged from the deep oceans in the 1950's..." Fossils, 1991, p.101.
Gingko, P. Arduini & G. Teruzzi, "The Gingko biloba is the sole surviving
species of a very old group of gymnosperms which died out 100 million years
ago." Prehistoric Atlas, 1982, p.78.
Coelacanth, Keith S. Thomson, Pres., Academy of Natural Sciences, "Off the
coast of southern Africa, in the winter of 1938, a fishing boat called The
Nerine dragged from the Indian Ocean near the Chalumna River a fish thought
to be extinct for 70 million years. The fish was a coelacanth, an animal
that thrived concurrently with dinosaurs..." Living Fossil, 1991, From
bookcover.
Horseshoe Crab, Keith S. Thomson, The first members of this group appeared
some 424 million years ago in the Silurian and look quite like the modern
forms. The last fossils became extinct about 50 million years ago." Living
Fossil, 1991, p.72.
Dawn Redwood, Keith S. Thomson, This species was widespread and reasonably
common in the Pliocene of North America... The tree was thought to be
extinct worldwide until living specimens were found in central China in
1945." Living Fossil, 1991, p.72.
Dinosaur Trees, Sydney, Australia (AP) 12/15/1994 "David Noble was out on a
holiday hike when he stepped off the beaten path and into the prehistoric
age...standing amid trees thought to have disappeared 150 million years
ago. 'The discovery is the equivalent of finding a small dinosaur still
alive on the earth,' said Carrick Chambers, Director of the Royal Botanic
Gardens."
Extinct Crabs "French scientists who explored the Coral Sea said Friday
they discovered a new species of crustacean that was thought to have become
extinct 60 million years ago. The 'living fossil,' a female designated
Neoglyphea neocaledonica, was discovered 1,312 feet (400 meters) under
water during an expedition in the Chesterfield Islands, northwest of New
Caledonia...." AP, 5/ 19/2006
Graptolites, Sue Rigby, British Geol. Survey, "All paleontologist dream of
finding a 'living fossil.' Noel Dilly, it seems has done so... As
graptolites are arguably the most important zone fossils of the Lower
Palaeozoic (570-360 MYBP), this is far from an esoteric issue." Nature,
Vol.363, p.209, 3/18/'93.
Extinction Falsified, Richard A. Kerr "A bunch of sea urchins turned up in
the Cretaceous like a big penny, millions of years after they were believed
to have gone extinct. Fifteen of the 29 apparently extinct genera
reappeared therefore must not really have gone extinct." Science, V. 293,
p.1037, 10/8/2001
Falsification Is Theoretically Simple
EVOLUTION IS falsifiable, Richard Dawkins, Oxford, ""We should be very
surprised, for example, to find fossil humans appearing in the record
before mammals are supposed to have evolved! If a single, well verified
mammal skull were to turn up in 500 million year old rocks, our whole
modern theory of evolution would be utterly destroyed. Incidentally, this
is a sufficient answer to the canard, put about by creationist and their
journalistic fellow travelers, that the whole theory of evolution is an
'unfalsifiable' tautology. Ironically, it is also the reason why
creationist are so keen on the fake human footprints, which were carved
during the depression to fool tourist, in the dinosaur beds of Texas," The
Blind Watchmaker, 1986, p.225.
Evolution tested, Niles Eldridge, American Museum, N.H., "We have been
looking at the fossil record as a general test of the notion that life has
evolved: to falsify that general idea, we would have to show that forms of
life we considered more advanced appear earlier than the simpler forms."
Monkey Business, p.46, 1982.
AFRICAN SIGHTINGS, "...in Lesotho, the Bushmen left cave paintings
illustrating dinosaur footprints, and in some instances also the presumed
trackmakers. One of the creatures portrayed by those most superb of all
trackers is the distinct outline of an iguanodontid, in bipedal stance,
with reduced forelimbs and other details remarkably compatible with our
present-day enlightened understanding of those ancient creatures.
Ammunition here for creationists..." Ichnos, V.1, p.151-153, 1990.
"Human Footprints Found On Dinosaurs' Plateau" "...Turkmenian plateau
contains more than three thousand footprints! ...But the most mysterious
fact is that among the footprints of dinosaurs, footprints of bare human
feet were found!" (Translated from Russian) Komsomolskaya Pravda, 1/
31/1995
Dr. Kurban Amanniyazov, (Led Three Expeditions To Investate) "...If we
speak about the human footprint, it was made by a human-like animal.
Incredibly, this footprint is on the same plateau where there are dinosaur
tracks." Science In The USSR, "Old Friends Dinosaurs" T 986 No.1 p.
101-107.
Malachite Man
Fossil Footprints
Taylor Trail (14 Tracks) - McFall Trail (15 Tracks) - Burdick Track
(Sectioned)
Stinnett, TX Track - Sonoroa Tx Tracks - Russian Footprints - New Mexico
Footprint
Dinosaur Petroglyphs, Carvings
Utah - Colorado - Arizona - Cambodia - France - Italy
Peruvian, Mexican Dinosaur Artifacts:
Burial Stones - Pottery.- Fabric - Figurines
Cat Track - Fossil Finger - Iron Hammer- Iron Pot - Bronze Bell
Implications Of Contradictions
STEVEN M. STANLEY, Johns Hopkins Univ., "There is an infinite variety of
ways in which, since 1859, the general concept of evolution might have been
demolished. Consider the fossil record--a little known resource in Darwin's
day. The unequivocal discovery of a fossil population of horses in
Precambrian rocks would disprove evolution. More generally, any topsy-turvy
sequence of fossils would force us to rethink our theory, yet not a single
one has come to light. As Darwin recognized, a single geographic
inconsistency would have nearly the same power of destruction." The New
Evolutionary Timetable, 1981, p.171.
Louis Jacobs, SMU, President of the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology
"...co-occurrence of men and dinosaurs. Such an association would dispel an
Earth with vast antiquity. The entire history of creation, including the
day of rest, could be accommodated in the seven biblical days of the
Genesis myth. Evolution would be vanquished." In Quest Of The African
Dinosaur, p.261.
Ernst Mayr, Harvard, "Creationists have stated that humans and dinosaurs
were contemporaries in time...Were this momentous statement true the names
of its discoverers would thunder down the corridors of time as individuals
who made one of the most outstanding discoveries of the twentieth century."
Gish-Mayr Debate, Evansville, Indiana.
NOVA TV Special, God, Darwin And The Dinosaurs, "...dinosaur footprints,
side by side with humans. Finding them would counter evidence that humans
evolved long after the dinosaurs became extinct and back up...[the] claim
that all species, including man, were created at one time."
Revolution To Catastrophism Among Contemporary Geologist
RECORD IS CATASTROPHIC, David Raup, Chicago Field Museum, Univ. of Chicago,
"A great deal has changed, however, and contemporary geologists and
paleontologists now generally accept catastrophe as a 'way of life'
although they may avoid the word catastrophe... The periods of relative
quiet contribute only a small part of the record. The days are almost gone
when a geologist looks at such a sequence, measures its thickness,
estimates the total amount of elapsed time, and then divides one by the
other to compute the rate of deposition in centimeters per thousand years.
The nineteenth-century idea of uniformitarianism and gradualism still exist
in popular treatments of geology, in some museum exhibits, and in lower
level textbooks. ...one can hardly blame the creationists for having the
idea that the conventional wisdom in geology is still a noncatastrophic
one." Field Museum of Natural History Bulletin (Vol.54, March 1983), p.21.
"THE RULE," Robert H. Dott, Presidential Address To Society of Economic
Paleontologists & Mineralogists , "I hope I have convinced you that the
sedimentary record is largely a record of episodic events rather than being
uniformly continuous. My message is that episodicity is the rule, not the
exception. ...we need to shed those lingering subconscious constraints of
old uniformitarian thinking." Geotimes, Nov. 1982, p.16.
CATACLYSMIC, John R. Horner, "...there were 30 million fossil fragments in
that area. At a conservative estimate, we had discovered the tomb of 10,000
dinosaurs ...there was a flood. This was no ordinary spring flood from one
of the streams in the area but a catastrophic inundation. ...That's our
best explanation. It seems to make the most sense, and on the basis of it
we believe that this was a living, breathing group of dinosaurs destroyed
in one catastrophic moment." Digging Dinosaurs, 1988, p.131. [Editorial
note: Horner believes they were killed by volcanoes, then later buried by a
flood]
Alternate Explanation:
Universal, Cataclysmic, Year-Long Flood
NICHOLAS STENO Dott & Batten, (Father of Modern Statigraphy), "Besides
correctly interpreting fossils, Steno drew some even more important
conclusions about the strata in which they occur. The result was
formulation of most basic principles for analysis of earth history. Steno
showed great insight...Steno's axioms provide the ultimate basis of
practically all interpretation of earth history, so their importance can
hardly be overemphasized." Evolution Of The Earth, p.24.
A Flood Geologist, "Steno believed in the universal flood throughout his
life..." Geology, 9/2006.
John C. McCampbell, Head Of Department Of Geology, University of
Southeastern Louisiana "...the authors have shown such a position to be
supported by excellent proof and sound interpretation. ...and that the
major facts of geology and other sciences can be satisfactorily oriented
within this framework." The Genesis Flood, Forward, xvi.
ORDERED SEQUENCE? David M. Raup, U. of Chicago, Chicago Field Mus. Nat.
Hist., "The fossil record of evolution is amenable to a wide variety of
models ranging from completely deterministic to completely stochastic."
American Scientist, Vol.65, Jan.-Feb. p.57. ("stochastic," "...of,
pertaining to or arising from chance; involving probability; random..."
p.1402, Webster's New World Dictionary).
SEGREGATED FOSSIL ASSEMBLAGES, Gilluly, Walters, Woodford, "In correlating
rock strata by comparison of fossils, it is important to keep in mind the
limitations to the spread of organisms imposed by their natural habitats.
Many different depositional environments exist...Each environment has its
characteristic group of animals and plants, that live
contemporaneously...For example, we do not expect to find the bones of
antelopes in a coral reef, nor coral in a desert sand dune. ...we would not
expect to find the same fossils entombed in all the varied deposits
formed." Principles Of Geology, p.101.
FOSSIL PROGRESSION? David Raup, Chicago Field Museum, Prof. of Geology, U.
of Chicago, "A large number of well-trained scientists outside of
evolutionary biology and paleontology have unfortunately gotten the idea
that the fossil record is far more Darwinian than it is. This probably
comes from the oversimplification inevitable in secondary sources:
low-level textbooks, semi-popular articles, and so on. Also, there is
probably some wishful thinking involved. In the years after Darwin, his
advocates hoped to find predictable progressions. In general, these have
not been found yet the optimism has died hard, and some pure fantasy has
crept into textbooks...One of the ironies of the creation-evolution debate
is that the creationists have accepted the mistaken notion that the fossil
record shows a detailed and orderly progression and they have gone to great
lengths to accommodate this 'fact' in their Flood Geology." New Scientist,
V.90, p.832, 1981.
GLOBAL LAYERS, Derek Ager, President British Geologist Asso., "I was taken
by a Turkish friend to visit a cliff section in Upper Cretaceous sediments
near Sile on the Black Sea coast. ...what I in fact saw was the familiar
white chalk of north-west Europe with black flints and old fossil friends
such as Micraster and Echinocorys. What I was looking at was identical with
the 'White Cliffs of Dover' in England and the rolling plateau of Picardy
in France, the quarries of southern Sweden and the cliffs of eastern
Denmark. ...We have long known, of course, that the White Chalk facies of
late Cretaceous times extended all the way from Antrim in Northern Ireland,
via England and northern France, through the Low Countries, northern
Germany and southern Scandinavia to Poland, Bulgaria and eventually to
Georgia in the south of the Soviet Union. We also knew of the same facies
in Egypt and Israel. My record was merely an extension of that vast range
to the south side of the Black Sea. ...Nevertheless, there is even worse to
come, for on the other side of the Atlantic in Texas, we find the Austin
Chalk of the same age and character, and...found in Arkansas, Mississippi
and Alabama. And most surprising of all, much farther away still in Western
Australia, we have the Gingin Chalk of late Cretaceous age, with the same
black flints and the same familiar fossils, resting - as in north-west
Europe - on glauconitic sands." ...Some general explanation is surely
needed for such a wide distribution of such a unique facies pp.1-2 "...in
north-west Bulgaria, again the basal conglomerate is largely composed of
exactly similar purple quartzite pebbles (resting on Permian breccias also
like those of midland England) Even if one postulates continent-wide uplift
to produce the conglomerate in such widely separated places, it is very
difficult to explain why the source rock is also so remarkably similar from
one end of Europe to the other. ...It is well known that the Newark Group
of the eastern seaboard of the United States is exactly like the Trias of
north-west Europe.. The similarities are almost laughable.. ...we still
have to account for a general facies development in late Carboniferous
times that extends in essentially the same form all the way from Texas to
the Donetz coal basin, north of the Caspian Sea in the U.S.S.R. This
amounts to some 170º of longitude, and closing up the Atlantic by a mere
40º does not really help all that much in explaining the remarkable
phenomenon." The Nature of the Stratigraphical Record, pp.6-7.
Quotes used by Dr. Don Patton in video lecture.
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