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Conscious life after death proven from the
Bible! |
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Extinction Refuted!!! |
Two views of the state of the dead:
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Bible Truth |
False doctrine: Extinction |
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Bible's view of the dead |
False doctrine regarding the
state of the dead |
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When a man dies, his body returns to dust and his non-physical self (spirit/soul) returns to God where he continues as a disembodied spirit continues in a conscious state awaiting judgment.
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They define spirit and soul as breath, blood, energy, life force etc.
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Sheol/Hades: The Place of departed
Spirits
Luke 16:19-31 Deut 32:22
(Click on picture to see high resolution image)
- Deut 32:22: "For a fire is kindled in My anger, And burns to the lowest part of Sheol"
- This figurative language implies that there are divisions or distinctions within Sheol.
- While this is not clearly stated in the Old Testament, there seems to be some kind of distinction within Sheol. Later rabbinic writers clearly taught that Sheol had two sections. The righteous were in bliss in one section while the wicked were in torment in the other.
- Jesus confirmed the rabbinical writers view in Luke 16.
Sheol/Hades: Is Not Merely The Grave!
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Original language: Unseen place: Grave: |
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Many distinctions exist between kever and Sheol: |
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The Inner man: Extinctionists wrongly believe man is wholly physical!
- The New Testament authors clearly believed that man had a dual nature. They refer to the body as "the outer man" and the soul/spirit as the "inner man" in such places as Rom. 7:22 and Eph. 3:16. The contrast is so clearly embedded in the mind of the Apostle Paul that he even described "the outer man" as decaying while the "inner man" or soul was being renewed day by day (2 Cor. 4:16). The contrast between the physical life of the body which was decaying and the onward progressive life of the soul could not be clearer. The Apostle Paul did not hesitate to speak of the body as the tabernacle or the house of clay in which man's transcendent soul indwells. In 2 Cor. 12:2-4, he could describe a person as being completely conscious while out of the body as well as when the person was in the body. The man in the passage did not cease to exist while out of his body. The man's transcendent soul or spirit could leave his body and ascend to the third heaven and be conscious in the presence of God. In 2 Cor. 5:14, the body is "an earthly tent" in which we dwell. In Phil. 1:22-24, Paul could speak of himself as an "I am" which could choose between being "in" a body or "departing" from that body to be with Christ. Paul viewed his approaching death as "the time of my departure," not extinction (2 Tim. 4:6). The Apostle Peter spoke of himself as dwelling for awhile in his earthly tabernacle until the time came for him to lay aside his body and depart (2 Peter 1:13-15). With both Peter and Paul there is no indication that they equated their self or soul with their body. Their "I-ness" dwells in an earthly tabernacle. Just as it would be absurd to equate someone who lived in a tent with the tent itself, there is no way to equate man's soul with the body in which it dwells. The conditional immortalitists have never wrestled with the patently clear passages which speak of a dualism or contrast between the physical life of the body and the transcendent life of the soul or spirit. (Death and The Afterlife, Robert Morey, Dualist, p. 63,64)
- The Septuagint clearly "presupposed that the psuche will be separate from the body and will spend some time in the underworld." The same is clearly seen in the apocalyptic and pseudepigraphical works. "The soul lives on after death" (Ps. Phocyledes, 105 ff.). It then returns to God (Apc. Fsr. 7:3 6:4), is received by angels (Test. A. 6:5; Test. Tobi 52), where it goes to the underworld (S. Bar. 21:23; Apc. Esr. 4:12; Saphoneas Apc. 1:1). The Talmudic sources have already been listed in connection with nephesh. While the rabbinic literature clearly sets "the soul and the body in antithesis, however, there is no disparagement of the body." At death, the soul leaves the body (4 Esr. 7:78) and awaits its return to its resurrection body at the end of time (Bab. Sanh. 91 a b). (Death and The Afterlife, Robert Morey, Dualist, p. 56)
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You're Not Getting Older...But Better! |
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TEXT |
Outward Man |
Inward Man |
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2 Cor 4:16 |
Outward man decaying |
Inward man renewed |
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Rom 7:22 |
The body |
The inward man |
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Mt 26:41 |
Flesh weak |
Spirit willing |
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3 Jn 2 |
Be in good health |
just as your soul prospers |
Extinctionists believe man is monochotomous (single-natured):
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The Body Is The House Or Sheath Of The Soul |
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TEXT |
BODY |
SOUL/SPIRIT |
Comment |
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Mt 10:28 |
Man can kill the body |
but not the soul |
Makes no sense to an Neo-Sadduceeian why man cannot kill the soul. Click for Detailed discussion |
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2 Pet 1:13ff |
Lay aside my dwelling |
after my departure |
Clear continuity of existence after death pictured here. click for detailed discussion |
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Dan 7:15 |
In the midst of its sheath |
my spirit was distressed |
literal Hebrew word is sheath, in which a sword is placed. A powerful image that proves man's dichotomy. |
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Mt 27:52 |
Many bodies arose |
of the saints |
It doesn't say "the saints arose" but their bodies arose, indicating they were no longer "departed spirits" in hades. |
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Lk 8:52-56 |
She immediately rose from dead |
Her spirit returned |
a reversal of the separation that takes place at death between body and soul. Click for detailed discussion |
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Ps 42:6 |
within me |
My soul is in despair |
clear dichotomy |
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Zech 12:1 |
within him |
God forms the spirit of man |
clear dichotomy |
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1 Cor 2:11 |
which is in him |
the spirit of a man |
clear dichotomy |
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Num 16:22 |
all flesh |
The God of the spirits of |
clear dichotomy |
Extinctionists reject any kind of life or consciousness apart from the body or after death:
"As for the days of our life, they contain seventy years, Or if due to strength, eighty years, Yet their pride is but labor and sorrow; For soon it is gone and we fly away." Psalm 90:10-11
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Not The God Of The Dead...But Of The Living |
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TEXT |
DEATH |
LIFE AFTER |
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Lk 16:19-31 |
Poor man died |
was carried away by angels |
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Mt 17:1-5 |
Moses: 1500 BC & Elijah: 730 BC |
Appeared to disciples 33 A.D. |
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1 Sam 28:1-20 |
Samuel died |
Appeared to Saul soon after |
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1 Sam 28:19 |
Saul and two sons died |
joined the presence of Samuel |
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Gen 25:17 |
Breathed his last, died |
was gathered to his people |
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Eccl 12:7 |
Dust to earth |
Spirit to God |
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Isa. 14:9-11 |
the spirits of the dead will all respond and say to you |
"Even you have been made weak as we, You have become like us." |
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Ps 90:10-12 |
For soon it (life) is gone |
and we fly away |
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Rev 6:9-11 |
dead Christians |
Souls under altar talking to God |
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Lk 20:37-38 |
Jehovah is not the God of the dead |
Abraham, Samuel, Moses & Lazarus live now |
Extinctionists deny that when Christians die they are immediately in presence of God
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To Be Or Not To Be ... That Is Question |
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TEXT |
TO BE IN BODY |
TO BE WITH LORD |
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Job 19:26 |
And after my skin, even this body, is destroyed |
Then without my flesh shall I see God (ASV) |
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Phil 1:22 |
To abide in flesh |
To die and be with Christ much better |
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2 Cor 5:6-8 |
To be home in body, absent Lord |
To be absent from body and with Lord |
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2 Cor 12:3 |
Whether in body |
or out of body |
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1 Th 5:10 |
whether awake or asleep (dead) |
we may live together with Him |
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Acts 2:27-31 |
Flesh abide in hope |
Soul not abandoned in Hades |
Pagan Doctrine or Bible Doctrine?
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Ask an Neo-Sadduceeian this question: |
Extinctionists Answer: |
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What is the origin of Christmas? |
Pagan False Doctrine!!! |
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What is the origin of Easter Bunny? |
Pagan False Doctrine!!! |
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What is the origin of Halloween? |
Pagan False Doctrine!!! |
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What is the origin of Trinity doctrine? |
Pagan False Doctrine!!! |
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What is the origin of Eternal conscious torment? |
Pagan False Doctrine!!! |
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What is the origin of Immortal soul? |
Pagan False Doctrine!!! |
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What is the origin of Conscious life after death? |
Pagan False Doctrine!!! |
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Knockout Punch!
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Why would Jesus use from Pagan false doctrine in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus? (Luke 16:19-31)
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4 Bible scenes of actual life after
death:
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Isa 14:9-11 |
"God said to the King of Babylon: "Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; ... "They will all respond and say to you, 'Even you have been made weak as we, You have become like us. 'Your pomp and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol" |
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1 Sam 28:1-20 |
"Now Samuel was dead ... Then Saul said to his servants, "Seek for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her." ... Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me." When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice... And the king said to her, "Do not be afraid; but what do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see an old man is coming up, and he is wrapped with a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel ... Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am greatly distressed; for the Philistines are waging war against me ... therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do." And Samuel said, tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. Indeed the Lord will give over the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines!" |
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Luke 16:19-31 |
"Now it came about that the poor man died and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. "And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom. "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me." |
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Rev 6:9-11 |
"I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God ... and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, wilt Thou refrain from judging and avenging our blood ... And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer" |
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Hades and Hell: Two different things:
- No one before judgement is in Hell (gehenna)
- Departed spirits are in Hades (Unseen place)
- Hades is a temporary waiting place
- Hell is the final eternal place
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"And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Rev 20:14-15 |
If hades = hell and lake of fire = hell |
Then the text means reads: "hell was thrown into hell" |
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Conclusions:
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Lk 20:37-38 (Jesus' knock out punch to Extinctionists!)
"But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the burning bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. "Now He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; for all live to Him ... you are greatly mistaken ... And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching."
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Knockout Punch Question #1: Lk 20:37-38 How does Jesus statement, "He is the God of the Living" prove their is a resurrection?
Correct Answer: Jesus actually used "domino theology"! The Sadducees rejected resurrection because they took the identical view of the dead as Jw's, SDA's, Armstrongites & Christadelphians! Jesus proved that the dead, contrary to the Sadducees doctrine, are living, conscious, departed spirits. By refuting this false doctrine, Jesus proved that these departed spirits are consciously awaiting judgement! Jesus refuted two false doctrines (extinction at death and no resurrection) by proving that the dead are conscious! |
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So you believe Jesus believed the Jehovah's Witness false view of the state of the dead? If Jesus, the Sadducees and the Jw's all take the identical view of the dead, how did Jesus' argument prove anything? If "He is the God of the living" actually means "living in God's memory, but literally non-existent and extinct" The Sadducees would agree with this and say that Jesus argument doesn't have any bearing on the resurrection! The truth is, Jesus corrected their FALSE VIEW of the state of the dead and that is what "God is the God of the living, for all live to Him" means! No Jw or SDA has ever been able to refute Jesus' own argument!
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Eccl 9:3-10
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New American Standard Translation of Eccl 9:5 |
"the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything" This is the correct rendering of the original language! |
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New world Translation of Eccl 9:5 (a sectarian perversion used only by Jw's) |
"the living are conscious (Heb: yada) that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious (Heb: yada) of nothing at all."
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False interpretation of Eccl 9:3-10
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Eccl 9:3-10 says... |
Extinctionists interpret... |
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"the dead do not know anything" |
The dead cease to exist and are unconscious |
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"for their memory is forgotten" |
Their brain ceases to function and all memory in their brain is lost! |
BUT...
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The Eccl 9:3-10 also says... |
Does this mean... |
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"that there is one fate for all men" |
All are saved? All are lost? |
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"nor have they any longer a reward" |
No hope of eternal reward? I thought you told me that God retained their memory on a floppy disk for the day of resurrection? |
Proper interpretation of Eccl 9:3-10
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that there is one fate for all men. |
From a human perspective... under the sun ...all men and animals physically die.
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"nor have they any longer a reward" |
From a human perspective... under the sun ... no one takes U-Haul when they die.
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"for their memory is forgotten" |
From a human perspective... under the sun ... the dead are forgotten by the living.
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"the dead do not know anything" |
The Departed Spirit doesn't have a magic mirror on those living under the sun!
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Job 14 is a major OT chapter on conscious life after death!
Job 14:1-15 "Man, who is born of woman, Is short-lived and full of turmoil. "Like a flower he comes forth and withers. He also flees like a shadow and does not remain. "Thou also dost open Thine eyes on him, And bring him into judgment with Thyself. "Who can make the clean out of the unclean? No one! "Since his days are determined, The number of his months is with Thee, And his limits Thou hast set so that he cannot pass. "Turn Thy gaze from him that he may rest, Until he fulfills his day like a hired man. "For there is hope for a tree, When it is cut down, that it will sprout again, And its shoots will not fail. "Though its roots grow old in the ground, And its stump dies in the dry soil, At the scent of water it will flourish And put forth sprigs like a plant. "But man dies and lies prostrate. Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens be no more, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep. "Oh that Thou wouldst hide me in Sheol, That Thou wouldst conceal me until Thy wrath returns to Thee, That Thou wouldst set a limit for me and remember me! "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait, Until my change comes. "Thou wilt call, and I will answer Thee"
- Ps 90:10 As for the days of our life, they contain seventy years, Or if due to strength, eighty years, Yet their pride is but labor and sorrow; For soon it is gone and we fly away.
- Ps 20:7-9 Those who have seen him will say, 'Where is he?' 8 "He flies away like a dream, and they cannot find him; Even like a vision of the night he is chased away. 9 "The eye which saw him sees him no more, And his place no longer beholds him.
- Jn 12:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains by itself alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
- Job 19:25-27 But as for me I know that my Redeemer liveth, And at last he will stand up upon the earth: And after my skin, even this body, is destroyed, Then without (Hebrew literally = without) my flesh shall I see God; Whom I, even I, shall see, on my side, And mine eyes shall behold, and not as a stranger.
- Job 3:17-22 "There the wicked cease from raging, And there the weary are at rest. "The prisoners are at ease together; They do not hear the voice of the taskmaster. "The small and the great are there, And the slave is free from his master. "Why is light given to him who suffers, And life to the bitter of soul; Who long for death, but there is none, And dig for it more than for hidden treasures; Who rejoice greatly, They exult when they find the grave?
- Isa 57:1 The righteous man perishes, and no man takes it to heart; And devout men are taken away, while no one understands. For the righteous man is taken away from evil, He enters into peace; They rest in their beds, Each one who walked in his upright way.
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Contrast between the state of the righteous and wicked dead |
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Extinctionists teach that the dead cease to exist consciously. Their primary mistake is to not recognize the following differences that the Bible indicates for the state of the righteous dead and the wicked dead. |
Contrast between the state of the wicked and righteous dead:
- The state of the dead is identical for righteous and wicked as taught by Extinctionists: Jehovah's Witnesses (Jw's), Christadelphians, Seventh-day Adventists (SDA), Herbert W. Armstrong: Worldwide Church of God (WCG).
- But the Bible clearly indicates that there is a huge difference in the state of the dead as seen by this summary chart below.
- This chart proves that Extinctionists are apostate false teachers who define the dead as unconscious and non-existent. Extinctionists are false teachers who have no Bible data to support their false view.
- The Bible clearly teaches that all the dead exist and that there are two opposite conditions for the righteous and wicked dead.
Summary:
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Righteous dead |
Wicked dead |
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will not go to Sheol |
will go to Sheol |
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Comforted |
tormented |
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at rest |
no rest |
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enters into peace |
no peace |
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Blessed |
cursed |
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never shaken |
brought to destruction |
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remembered forever |
Forgotten forever |
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memory blessed |
memory rots |
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name remembered forever |
blotted out name forever |
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won't be eaten by worms and is remembered |
worm feeds sweetly till he is remembered no more |
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will have a posterity |
posterity will be cut off |
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not silenced |
silenced |
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not be put to shame |
put to shame |
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refuge when he dies |
thrust down when he dies |
Detailed data:
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Righteous dead |
Wicked dead |
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1 Sam 2:9 |
He keeps the feet of His godly ones (not silenced like wicked) |
But the wicked ones are silenced in darkness |
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Is 14:9, 11, 15 |
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"Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones. ... 'Your pomp and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol; Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you, And worms are your covering.' ... "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit. |
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Isa 57:1 |
For the righteous man is taken away from evil, He enters into peace; They rest in their beds, Each one who walked in his upright way. |
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Job 3:17-22 |
And there the weary are at rest. "The prisoners are at ease together; They do not hear the voice of the taskmaster. "The small and the great are there, And the slave is free from his master. "Why is light given to him who suffers, And life to the bitter of soul; Who long for death, but there is none, And dig for it more than for hidden treasures; Who rejoice greatly, They exult when they find the grave? |
"There the wicked cease from raging, |
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Job 21:13-14 |
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"They spend their days in prosperity, And suddenly they go down to Sheol. "And they say to God, 'Depart from us! We do not even desire the knowledge of Thy ways. |
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Job 24:19-20 |
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Drought and heat consume the snow waters, So does Sheol those who have sinned. "A mother will forget him; The worm feeds sweetly till he is remembered no more. |
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Job 30:22-23 |
"Thou dost lift me up to the wind and cause me to ride; And Thou dost dissolve me in a storm. "For I know that Thou wilt bring me to death And to the house of meeting for all living. |
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Job 33:18 |
He keeps back his soul from the pit, And his life from passing over into Sheol. [notice that according to Extinctionists all men will end up in the pit and Sheol!] |
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Ps 9:5 |
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Thou hast rebuked the nations; Thou hast destroyed the wicked; Thou hast blotted out their name forever and ever. |
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Prov 10:7 |
The memory of the righteous is blessed |
But the name of the wicked will rot |
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Ps 9:17-19 |
For the needy will not always be forgotten, Nor the hope of the afflicted perish forever. |
The wicked will turn to Sheol, Even all the nations who forget God. |
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Ps 31:17 |
Let me not be put to shame, O Lord, for I call upon Thee; |
Let the wicked be put to shame, let them be silent in Sheol. |
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Prov 14:32 |
But the righteous has a refuge when he dies |
The wicked is thrust down by his wrongdoing |
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Prov 15:10,24 |
The path of life leads upward for the wise, That he may keep away from Sheol below. [notice that according to Extinctionists all men will end up in the pit and Sheol!] |
Stern discipline is for him who forsakes the way; He who hates reproof will die. Sheol and Abaddon lie open before the Lord, |
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Ps 37:35-38 |
Mark the blameless man, and behold the upright; For the man of peace will have a posterity. ... |
I have seen a violent, wicked man spreading himself like a luxuriant tree in its native soil. Then he passed away, and lo, he was no more; I sought for him, but he could not be found. ... But transgressors will be altogether destroyed; The posterity of the wicked will be cut off. |
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Ps 55:22-23 |
He will never allow the righteous to be shaken. |
But Thou, O God, wilt bring them down to the pit of destruction; Men of bloodshed and deceit will not live out half their days. |
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Ps 112:6 |
For he will never be shaken; The righteous will be remembered forever. |
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Lk 16:25 |
Lazarus comforted |
Rich man tormented |
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Rev 14:13 |
'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them." |
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Do these verses prove there is no consciousness after we die?
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'there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol where you are going" Eccl 9:10 |
Their brain ceases to function and all memory in their brain is lost? No! The realm of the dead is a place of conscious waiting, no house renovations or business activity! |
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"His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish." Psalm 146:4 |
Their brain ceases to function and all memory in their brain is lost? No! At death his activity or planning or knowledge and wisdom for his life under the sun perish. |
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Do these verses prove there is no consciousness after we die? NO!
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Why not attend
a good Bible believing local church in your own home town this Sunday. Click here to find the closest assembly of Christians to your house. |
By Steve Rudd: Contact the author for comments, input or corrections.
